83: Becoming an IBC Practitioner with Doug Mackenzie

[00:00:00] Hello, everyone. A quick heads up before we get started with this episode, we will very soon be changing the name of this podcast from The Fifth Edition to "Strategic Whole Life." And don't worry. The topic of our podcast is not changing. We're fully committed to The Infinite Banking Concept and helping people understand how it works.

[00:00:20] The reason we're changing the name of the podcast is we found that The Fifth Edition was just a little too esoteric. It was originally a call back to the final print edition of Nelson Nash's "Becoming Your Own Banker."

[00:00:32] But it wasn't helping people find us and the information that we're sharing in our podcast.

[00:00:37] So keep an eye out. When you see the new name, pop up on your feed, it's still us. And we're looking forward to doing many, many more episodes with you.

[00:00:45] Thanks. And now let's get on with the episode. Hello, everyone. A quick heads up before we get started with this episode, we will very soon be changing the name of this podcast from The Fifth Edition to "Strategic Whole Life." [00:01:00] And don't worry. The topic of our podcast is not changing. We're fully committed to The Infinite Banking Concept and helping people understand how it works.

[00:01:07] The reason we're changing the name of the podcast is we found that The Fifth Edition was just a little too esoteric. It was originally a call back to the final print edition of Nelson Nash's "Becoming Your Own Banker."

[00:01:20] But it wasn't helping people find us and the information that we're sharing in our podcast.

[00:01:25] So keep an eye out. When you see the new name, pop up on your feed, it's still us. And we're looking forward to doing many, many more episodes with you.

[00:01:33] Thanks. And now let's get on with the episode.

[00:01:35]

[00:01:35] John Montoya: Episode 83, How to Become an IBC Practitioner. Hello everyone, I've got a special guest for us today. He is Doug McKenzie, a new IBC practitioner, and I wanted to bring him on to share a little bit about himself, his background, his story, and why he wanted to become an IBC practitioner. And for those of you interested in becoming an [00:02:00] IBC practitioner, I think this will be a great episode because I'm going to ask Doug to share.

[00:02:04] A little bit about what the process is like that way everyone listening has a little bit more familiarity on how you could possibly become an IBC practitioner yourself. Doug, let's jump into it. Tell us a little bit about your backstory, where you're from maybe your work background and what piqued your interest in IBC.

[00:02:24] Doug Mackenzie: Sure. Thanks for having me, by the way. I'm a longtime listener of your show, so this is a great treat to be on here. I am in New Hampshire, so fully on the other side of the country from you. And I, my, my work background is in the last decade or so is primarily in sales. And in the chemical industry. So quite literally no relation to infinite banking, but I've always had an interest in finances, going back into my mid to late twenties, I got into reading about how I should be investing [00:03:00] and, saving for retirement and all those types of things.

[00:03:02] And I would consider myself to be pretty well versed in the traditional financial realm, so I was maxing out my 401k, maxing out my Roth IRA, putting money in the taxable brokerage and I was, watching my net worth go up, uh, and it was pretty exciting, and I thought that I had it all figured out.

[00:03:25] It was funny though. I remember... I would have these conversations with my wife and I'd tell her hey, our net worth reached this amount. And she's that's cool, but we, we can't use it and it could go down or it could go up. And I'd say yeah, but that's, that's just how it works.

[00:03:39] And I didn't know anything else besides that. That's what my parents do. That's what all my friends do. And I've thought back, I think we've talked about this before, John, but. I had heard about The Infinite Banking Concept probably going back even as far as [00:04:00] five years. And as I'm sure whole life insurance doesn't typically get a good rap.

[00:04:06] And so I remember hearing about it in some Facebook group or a forum. I looked to see a little bit further about what it was, saw that it involved, a chassis of whole life insurance and just figured it was a scam. And I ignored it. And and then going back last year it popped up again somewhere on, on a forum or a group and I decided to look into it a little bit more and for whatever reason I, I wound up getting linked up to...

[00:04:36] The Lara Murphy Report, put out by the Nelson Nash Institute, and then found your podcast, actually. So the Lara Murphy Report and Fifth Edition were the two, two podcasts that I was really listening to there in the beginning, and I started to try to read anything that I could get my hands on and it just started to make a lot of sense.

[00:04:58] John Montoya: Yeah. And I [00:05:00] really have to applaud you because you have a voracious appetite for new knowledge. And that was one of the things that really impressed me about you when you came in through the podcast was your curiosity and your willingness to learn. Everything about infinite banking. So it was actually no surprise that you wanted to head in this direction.

[00:05:19] I'm curious though what were some myths and maybe misconceptions that you had to overcome? You mentioned whole life is not really, the conventional way that people, go about organizing their finances. What did you have to overcome when it in regards to IBC and whole life?

[00:05:37] Doug Mackenzie: The hardest thing for me to overcome at first, quite honestly, was that nobody else was doing it that I knew. That was the most, that was the thing that was really difficult for me because I had this nagging feeling for quite a while that I really had to have been missing something. That everyone else understood, but then I quickly came to find that just nobody understood what whole life insurance was [00:06:00] or how it could be utilized and it was really as simple as that, um, and and then I had to think about it differently I, I had to get out of that mind frame of risk and investing and rates of return and all of that to understand that this is not, it's not a true comparison comparing, what I'm going to put into my 401k versus my whole life policy to practice infinite banking. I remember one of the first conversations I had with my wife. Once I figured it out, we went on a walk and I was all excited and I'm like, listen you gotta understand, like we can save money in this thing and we can use it, and it's still compounds.

[00:06:37] And it was it was just moving past. This, I had a lot of mental blocks around what I thought I knew, and I had to set those aside.

[00:06:50] John Montoya: Yeah, I think we all do, and that's part of the arrival syndrome that Nelson mentions in his book, right? Yeah, I'm glad that you [00:07:00] mentioned that. What what do you think IBC helped you solve in your own life? Whether personally just for you or for your family what does IBC solve for you that you couldn't get someplace else?

[00:07:14] Doug Mackenzie: Sure. One, I would say the most important thing, uh, in implementing IBC in our family's life has done is just peace of mind. I would have to say that's the number one thing. I really value that. I don't check the balances on my whole life policies. I don't worry about what's going on with them.

[00:07:34] They're just there. It's slow and steady. I know that I have access to capital. When I need it, which is just, it's hard to quantify the value from that but I went from, cause I, we were living comfortably but I didn't have a lot of free cash lying around. It was all going into these accounts that I then just, I'm 36, so I couldn't touch them for, tell them 59 and a half.

[00:07:59] So [00:08:00] quite a long time. And there's a lot of lost opportunity costs there and just. I'm wondering what's going to happen down the road. So it's returned a lot of control into my life. And also this. It's alleviated a lot of the worrying I had about finances. And it's come in use quite a few times now.

[00:08:19] My wife switched jobs earlier in the year and it allowed us to make that transition without worry, knowing that, that. She was unhappy at her previous job, so she was able to leave that a little bit earlier than she might have wanted to. We had access to cash, and we knew that we had that.

[00:08:36] Even when I started up this new business as a practitioner, there were costs associated with that. I didn't have to worry about that. That, for me is the most important thing that it's done.

[00:08:48] John Montoya: Yeah, I think in, especially here in America, we're stuck on one definition of financial freedom, which is to have enough money really. So we don't have to worry about [00:09:00] money anymore in retirement. That tends to be the main way that I found that people define financial freedom. But there's another definition that I like to share with people and that's the freedom to make choices that can better your life now, so you're not stuck and what you're describing, the control and the freedom to make those choices that improves the quality of life for you and your family, you're right. You can't quantify that. You can't. Put a value on that, and that's an aspect of financial freedom that I think people tend to lose when they go the conventional way of building out a financial plan through a government qualified account like a 401k, an IRA, and, buying a term policy that they know is going to eventually, lapse or the term is going to expire because they're going to outlive it.

[00:09:55] And you have all these conventional ways of thinking that end up, putting you in a [00:10:00] box and you just don't have the control, freedom and to, to your first point, you don't have the peace of mind knowing that. You're going to be able to just handle whatever comes your way.

[00:10:13] So I appreciate you sharing all that. Cause that's very, I think that's very impactful for everyone to, to understand that IBC does so much more than people realize. So let's let's talk a little bit about what prompted you to become an IBC practitioner, because that's an interesting twist.

[00:10:34] I know I, I have a lot of people that reach out to me and say that they're interested and, it's a process to become an IBC practitioner and some are on the fence about joining the Nelson Nash Institute for their own reasons. So I'm just curious first what prompted you to become an IBC practitioner?

[00:10:53] Doug Mackenzie: It was earlier last year and I actually had some some health issues going on and I had some time on my hands. I'm normally a pretty active [00:11:00] guy. And so I was sitting there and I just, I come from a background of sales. I do like working with people. I like finding solutions to problems.

[00:11:11] And I was, very excited about Infinite Banking, this discovery that I had made, and I just thought to myself, man, why couldn't I also do this as a practitioner? It was really as simple as that. So I I reached out to some people to find out what that process entailed. And... Because really what I do in my history of chemical sales, I have customers that I have good relationships with and all these types of things.

[00:11:39] But am I very passionate about selling chemicals? Am I really making a huge difference in anybody's life? Probably not. I'm helping out companies, but am I making a difference on a personal level? Not really. And it was very interesting to me that I could potentially do something that I knew could [00:12:00] radically alter the outcome of people's lives. And when you start to look at infinite banking in that way, it is, it has this ripple effect that's incredibly powerful. And that peace of mind that you talked about can be passed down through generations so that people can get out of that, working until you hopefully make it to that age and, then, because to go back to that, by the way, I thought what you said was great.

[00:12:26] There's a book that I really like called "Die With Zero." I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but. He argues that, the time value of time when you're younger is much higher than when you're older, because of course you might not make it till you're older, but you can also do much more when you're younger.

[00:12:42] We have a policy on my son, and that's going to allow him to do things when he's my age or younger. More freedom than I definitely had with that, because it's going to be a substantial amount of money at that point. The idea that I could work with people and make that kind of difference in their [00:13:00] lives, in their kids lives, in their grandkids lives was very appealing.

[00:13:03] John Montoya: yeah. Yeah. I, I. Completely agree. Tell us about the process of the, of becoming an IBC practitioner. There, there's a new mentorship program that I believe you took part of, if not still participating in. So maybe you can share a little bit about the program and what's involved for the audience.

[00:13:24] Doug Mackenzie: Sure first, other than getting licensed to sell insurance in your own state which I did there's an educational process through the Nelson Nash Institute itself. So that involves going through a rather lengthy course taking that exam meeting with the board at the Nelson Nash Institute to get vetted, because obviously they're trying to ensure that anybody out there that's affiliated with the Nelson Nash Institute is going to be doing things in accordance With how they want them to be done.

[00:13:56] And the mentorship program is is great. I am linked up with a [00:14:00] guy named John in New Hampshire. He's maybe 30 minutes from me, and he essentially works with me on new cases. And helps me out with his experience and I have to say I, I don't, I can't really picture doing this without having had that aspect of a mentor kind of guiding me through because when you're dealing with writing policies for people, everybody's situations are very different.

[00:14:30] There's no one size fits all solution, so it's been very eye opening for me to have that gentleman's experience aiding me through that process.

[00:14:42] John Montoya: Yeah, you just don't know what you don't know. So having the ability to lean on someone who has the experience and can guide you through best practice best practices for you. And, of course you can take those best practices and then make them your own in your own way.

[00:14:57] I I think is [00:15:00] invaluable for those interested in becoming an IBC practitioner, I think. For me, if I were to be brand new again, and by the way, I didn't have a mentor. I came in and had to learn everything on my own, and it was such a painful experience. It took me probably three years. To get a thriving practice going and the financial hardship that I had to go through to become successful in my own practice I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[00:15:32] I don't know if I've shared this in a prior episode, but, uh, I I'm on my second marriage, but my first marriage, even though it ended very amicably there was a financial aspect like there is in all divorces where I was completely 1099 and trying to earn an income in the Bay Area raising three kids practically in diapers [00:16:00] and having Having to go it alone really it, it caused a lot of financial hardship to the point where my first wife actually said to me, you need to get a job.

[00:16:13] She basically gave me an ultimatum and I had to choose between continuing with IBC or do it part time or go get a, 40 hour a week job someplace. And ultimately I decided I was going to stick with IBC. I didn't want to give up on it. I was so passionate about it that I just basically bet on myself and the end result of it, it wasn't completely because I went, I chose.

[00:16:40] to do IBC full time and say, damn the torpedoes. But it was the the last straw, if you will. And so we ended up getting divorced and I plugged away with IBC. And I don't know. What the reasoning was, but it seemed like rather quickly once the divorce [00:17:00] settled and it moved pretty quickly, we just had to wait for the state of California.

[00:17:03] But once everything transpired and the divorce went through, for whatever reason, my practice started to really blossom. But it was those three years of hardship and trying to figure things out. That's my main takeaway for people here. You can bypass that type of frustration and hardship. And if you've got a spouse, you're in it together, whether you realize it or not.

[00:17:31] And the impact that you have on people, you can, through the mentorship program, you can really accelerate the impact that you have in your family's life by speeding up that process, speed up the knowledge the best practices that you can gain by working with a mentor. I can't stress enough that if you're thinking about going it alone, ask yourself why.

[00:17:54] If you can take a shorter path, do it. It's worth it. [00:18:00] And I know there's a financial cost for the program. And to be an IBC practitioner, there's an annual cost, but to me it's peanuts compared to the value that you get. And especially for someone new, juSt hearing what you're saying, Doug and correct me if I'm wrong, but you have a podcast that you're now doing with John too, right? So yeah, so you're speeding up, you're accelerating the experience, your knowledge base, your best practices. To do that on your own, it's a loaded question, but do you think you'd Would have been able to get as far as you have on your own.

[00:18:40] Doug Mackenzie: No, absolutely not. I wouldn't have even done it if this was a, wasn't A possibility. I'm in some other Facebook groups and stuff like that for Infinite Banking, and there's a lot of people, it's an attractive concept once you get it. So there's a lot of people that like to use that, as part of their business, but they're not associated with the NNI, [00:19:00] and a lot of them have no clue what they're talking about.

[00:19:03] And I didn't want to be one of those people. I had no knowledge of the insurance industry or how to navigate anything. I just would've, like you said, in your experience, it would've been really tough. I have a four year old, I just, I wanted a little bit more security around that and I'm very happy that I chose this path.

[00:19:21] I also think that the cost is pretty negligible. To be associated with the, really, truly pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things. Yeah.

[00:19:30] John Montoya: Yeah.

[00:19:32] Doug Mackenzie: And it's my reputation. And truly, if my goal here is to build a lifelong practice, as you've done, I want it to be on a solid footing.

[00:19:40] And so if I have clients that I'd like to be lifelong clients I want to make sure that I'm providing them with the best possible solution. And how am I supposed to do that if I don't know what that is?

[00:19:52] John Montoya: Yeah, absolutely. And, I like to think that we stand on the shoulders of giants and [00:20:00] in the IBC space, there, there is no bigger giant than Nelson Nash. And so for me being able to be part of the community and to stand on his shoulders for me, it's about doing him honor and the gratitude I have, because even though my life did take that fork in the road, my life is better because of IBC personally and professionally.

[00:20:28] And I owe that all to Nelson Nash and to share. Everything that I've learned to me personally, I know everyone's different and they have their own reasons whether they're involved with the Nelson Nash Institute as a practitioner. But for me my, my dad always said, follow your heart.

[00:20:46] And I, my dad's not around, but I take his life lessons to heart and for me can't put a price on the thought leaders and the people who impact your life the way that Nelson did for [00:21:00] me, it's an honor to be able to share IBC with others and to say that I'm part of the Nelson Nash Institute.

[00:21:07] I am an IBC practitioner. That, that's something that. I, for the rest of my life just there, there's so much pride there. I can't quantify it but for those listening and those interested in becoming an IBC practitioner, there's something to be said. It's authentic, it's genuine .

[00:21:26] What IBC, Infinite Banking, the impact that it has in your life to be able to, walk your own talk and share your own stories and to be able to say, I'm part of this group, you can go look me up. I'm verified. I Think that adds the authenticity. That people want and it just, it's for me, it's just an incredible feeling to know that I am standing on his shoulders and, we're, you mentioned this we're [00:22:00] having an impact and it's not just in the current generation, but it is multi generational and it's why I'm part of this group and why, I want to continue to be part of this group for as long as I'm around.

[00:22:12] All that said, Doug I want to transition just a little bit, because now that you're talking to people and sharing the message of what IBC can do, I was hoping that maybe you could share with people some of the stumbling blocks that you've come across now as an IBC practitioner, because maybe it's the same hangup or hangups that other people, listeners, are having. What have you found in your experience now in your new role?

[00:22:39] Doug Mackenzie: Yeah, the biggest one that I've seen so far that's come up the most consistently is having them understand that paying policy premium is saving. I have had many people that have a very difficult time understanding that.

[00:22:54] They'll say they understand it, but then based on conversations we have, they don't understand it. They view it as an [00:23:00] expense, um, and almost expect this rate of return. So it's like a confusion between a savings vehicle and an investment but really truly this idea that paying premium is saving, that they're not losing that money, that it's not an expense, it's not going anywhere.

[00:23:18] so That's something that I've been working on quite a bit lately with a few clients actually.

[00:23:23] John Montoya: I had a conversation yesterday with with a gentleman who's a IBC producer, and he had a great line. He's 60 years old and he was talking about the privilege of paying premium into your old age. And I love the way that he put it. I hadn't really thought of it that way as a privilege, but it absolutely is because, we, we all have choices when a person retires, they could potentially stop contributing premium.

[00:23:56] To their policies, right? There, there's a mechanism where you can pay up a [00:24:00] policy permanently or even temporarily. And the thought process, I think that people need to at least think about in this example if you're fortunate enough to retire and have the option to continue paying premium, think of the impact.

[00:24:19] On where your money is directed, because if you stop paying premium, but you still have the ability to save even in retirement, where is that money, um, going to provide more economic value for you? In someone else's bank? Or... and your own IBC bank. And when people frame it that way or have it framed to them it really is a privilege because if you don't have that ability to continue paying premium into your You know, older as you get older you basically go back to relying on the fractional reserve banking system where you're not going to get as much economic [00:25:00] value as you would within your whole life policy.

[00:25:02] Paying. Paying premium. You're right. It's number one. It's really not an expense. Once you get to that stage in life where you've fully capitalized you have a mature policy. Now it's just all the extra value that you get and it absolutely is a privilege. So yeah that, that's a wonderful share, Doug.

[00:25:21] Any other tips on how people can get past, thinking of whole life or IBC in a conventional way, maybe they're on the cusp of getting started, but from your own experience

[00:25:31] Doug Mackenzie: Yeah, I would say that my, my tip and one that I have to give to myself sometimes is that, it, you can't think of a whole life policy as an investment vehicle. It's also not, doesn't make any sense to compare it to one. And I often overlook the benefits that having that reduced risk profile gives me.

[00:25:52] Most people, when I start working with them, if you look at what they have for financial assets, it's extremely risky [00:26:00] extremely volatile, it's some cash, a lot of stocks most of the time, and they have no stable asset base in their profile there, and it's really important, I think, to have that and instead of maybe looking at some bonds there too, which really, Aren't all that stable.

[00:26:20] To understand that, that this is something that's a completely different risk profile and asset class that is an extremely valuable contribution to one's overall financial portfolio, regardless of infinite banking.

[00:26:34] John Montoya: Yeah. Yep. A hundred percent. Doug, I really want to thank you for joining us on the podcast, for sharing your experience in becoming an IBC practitioner and, laying out the process that way people who are, Either longtime listeners of the show or new listeners, they, they understand that there is a process to becoming an IBC practitioner that they can hear it [00:27:00] firsthand from someone going through the process just how it works where can people find you if they'd like to reach out and work with you?

[00:27:07] Doug Mackenzie: Sure. First, if you want to listen to our podcast, it's called The ABCs of IBC. And then you could reach out on my website. It's www.ControlCapitalSolutions.com. And I'm also, as John said, I'm on the Nelson Nash website under New Hampshire. So you can find us both on there.

[00:27:25] John Montoya: Doug it's been a pleasure. I'm certainly grateful for you for being a listener of the show originally and reaching out. Like I said your passion and the way that you Just attack things. You have a thirst for knowledge, which I think really comes through. Even before we clip record, we're talking about some health related items and hearing what you have to share.

[00:27:50] You have e xpertise in a lot of different areas. I definitely always enjoy our conversations and for yeah, anyone wanting to [00:28:00] reach out and work with Doug you now know how to find him and everyone, thank you for listening to the show. I look forward to having you come back next week for the next episode.

[00:28:09] All right, everybody. Thank you, Doug.

[00:28:11] Doug Mackenzie: Thanks, John.

[00:28:12]